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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 72 post(s) |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 18:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
The more i think of buyable killrights, the less i see the point in them.
Can anybody help me out on this ?
For me, it sounds like - after a while - less and less people with killrights against them will be around, because there are far more people claiming these killrights ... and worse, people will just rely on alts to kill others and then will have them stick in stations until they are clean again.
The fantastic idea of having hundreds of people around me who i can shoot gets slapped in the face by the actual reality of being in hek and - for a day - seeing dozens of people already killing each other ... ... and then it's over. Done. Finito. No more killrights to buy, because all of them have been claimed already.
For the idea of buyable killrights to work, there must be enough influx of people killing others, so there are enough killrights to buy, which gets pointless, because EVERYBODY around me would try to seek everybody out who has a killright on him...
Did i miss something ? Please excuse if the description of my thoughts wasn't accurate enough to explain the mess it makes in my head.
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 18:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:But this is still something we're discussing * Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec
What's making me really sad about this is that there's *NO* reason to believe these people have any *ACTUAL* experience in this... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Overall, these are good changes... as killrights become much more "useful", but you wont see a huge population of highsec players with killrights on them. Then i fail to see the point of this.
As i noted above, there will be people with killrights in highsec for a while, but that'll spiral down to zero.
Buyable killrights for lowsec people ? What's the point? They'll shoot each other anyway. Highsec people going after lowsec people for killrights ? No point either.
I'm not saying they are bad changes, but i only see it spiraling down to "nothing to do, because it's all done" ... really fast. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Strata Maslav wrote:The point of the victim is to try to cash in on the loss of his ship. Say I get killed by someone and I am in a 200mil mining barge. I can put up a 50mil isk kill right on that guys head. Now for 30 days until someone kills the guy I will recieve 50mil everytime someone engages him. If he get engaged and gets killed, well thats 50 mil in my pocket; but if he gets away then I get the 50 mil still but in 15 minutes time someone tries again I get another 50 mil.
The kill rite will have to be high enough that he won't want to pay for it (if he does thats 50mil out of his own pocket, which is a result in itself) but low enough that others will want to pay that amount to take a shot at him.
Its a very odd dynamic but should make for some very interesting gameplay. I appreciate your response, but i fail to see it in context with my actual concern ...
... namely that there'll be nothing to do because it's all done, really soon. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
All of this would be so much more fun if i could just buy the right to kill somebody, regardless if he ever aggressed somebody or not.
Oh my, it would be one beautiful massacre, all day long .... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Some people will continue to give no ***** if they can be free-for-alled, but this will definitely cause many people to think twice before grabbing a criminal flag in highsec, because it means they can be dogpiled at anytime in highsec and without warning. As i can tell by experience, i can only agree with this. Most people ARE cowards in a videogame.
Otoh, maybe i should open up a school for highsec resident outlaws, so people stop being afraid of minor issues like being -10 and FFA. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Strata Maslav wrote:Solstice Project wrote:All of this would be so much more fun if i could just buy the right to kill somebody, regardless if he ever aggressed somebody or not.
Oh my, it would be one beautiful massacre, all day long .... The best thing is you can put a kill rite on your own head and bait fights. 1) Attack Alt in nub ship 2) Use alt to put 20 mil kill rite on your head. 3) Put a bounty on your head for 20% of the cost of you ship. 4) Sit there in your 100mil ship waiting for someone to attack you hoping to make a quick easy 40mil 5) Dont die for 15 minutes (Run away/fight back??) 6)?? 7) 20mil Profit 8) Do this for 30 days 9)Repeat This sounds very interesting, although i'd have to rely on a friend to do this, as i don't use alts. The other issues is that i definitely don't fly hundred million ISK ships, because that would be ridiculous. Not dieing for hours is easy. (no, not hiding in station ^_^)
otoh, i still have a donated cynabal that lacks use .......................................
I don't care about the money i could make ... i want more people to shoot at, all by myself. ^_^ Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Tallest wrote:1. When you buy a kill right, you do so in space when you can see the target of the kill right and the suspect flag is activated immediately. Think of it more like a hunting license than a commodity that changes hands. You paid for the opportunity of a kill, not a guarantee.
How will this not end in a downward spiral with nobody left who has killrights on him ?
Do you believe that the bountysystem will balance this, in the hope that people will try to kill others for bounty ?
If so, do you believe this will not end in people just using even more alts for ganking all the time, which ultimately leads to even less consequences for those killing others ? Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1796
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:People don't go after targets that are marginally profitable... they go after targets that are blatantly profitable... Your generalization is faulty. I don't care about money. I just fry everything i can, disregarding profits of the attempt to kill somebody. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[ Solstice Project wrote:As i noted above, there will be people with killrights in highsec for a while, but that'll spiral down to zero. Yes? Why is that a problem? It means people are exercising their kill rights rather than let them sit untouched. This is a good thing. And again i am wondering about how you are able to totally misunderstand my words and just read what you want to read, but i'll try in a manner that enables you to comprehend.
Of *COURSE* they are exercising their killrights, which is a good thing. The actual issue is, as you seem to acknowledge, that it's taking a spiral down to zero, with nobody left that one could buy killrights from.
You completely ignored the ultimate end, namely that there won't be anybody left with killrights and this will happen rather sooner than later.
If you only manage to respond half-assed, how about not responding at all.
edit: so, although obvious ... what kind of mechanic will motivate people to shoot others and risk being FFA ? Nobody yet realised that most people are cowards who would never dare going FFA at all ?
Thank you for any response that would show me how this is resolved. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:People don't go after targets that are marginally profitable... they go after targets that are blatantly profitable... Your generalization is faulty. I don't care about money. I just fry everything i can, disregarding profits of the attempt to kill somebody. We're talking about suicide ganking (SG) in highsec, and whether a large bounty will "sway" suicide gankers to gank a target. -- If you are NOT SG'ing for profit... then the bounty will have no effect on you... -- If you are SG'ing for profit, then the bounty helps your profit margin, but generally speaking, not enough to matter. Exceptions to this might be extraordinarily valuable ships. Example where it may matter: a JF pilots with a 1b+ bounty. Note: if you're a JF pilot with that large a bounty, you probably stole the JF and deserve to be suicide ganked, so the bounty system is working as intended!! Tbh, your last post helped me realize that there is a small chance that i'll catch shuttles/frigates and their pods with bounty on them ... and i *will* check this out. :) Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand why is that, seeing as how they'll be much more common under this new system and seeing as how there will be new incentives to keep collecting them? I'm not ignoring anything. I'm asking you why it will happen and why it will be a bad thing. Aye. It'll be a bad thing because, after every killright is claimed, there's nobody left to shoot.
I'm trying to bring my experience from hek into this. At first, there'll be a carnage, but sooner or later all the killrights have been bought up and claimed and there'll be no more new to buy.
That's the point. It's a downward spiral with no fresh content, once it's all used up.
I don't know if you know, but i can tell you *for sure* that most people are way too afraid of risking becoming FFA. As this will happen, i fail to see how new killrights should come up, once the old ones are all used up.
Even worse is the possibility of manymanymany people staying docked until old killrights have vanished. (meaning killrights that came up pre-expansion ... no idea if they count or not)
This sounds like more people just using alts for kills, which will then hide in station until the killrights have vanished...
Did i express my concerns in a proper manner ?
TL;DR: What incentive is there to keep people onto shooting others, so killrights form ? Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:Suicide ganking is not going to stop, as its waaayyyyy too profitable..... so killrights will continue to be generated by people that don't understand why putting 200m in an iteron III or 20b in a Freighter is a bad idea. Those people can sell their killrights, to recoup some loss. That's not my concern ... most gankers are cowards using alts they don't need to care about, so they don't actually count anyway. No difference to before. None. Absolutely none.
Lowsec people don't count either, because anybody could always head to lowsec, completely ignoring if there are killrights on somebody or not. In Lowsec, FFA is standard. No difference to before.
In the end, there's no reason to believe that there'll be more fights in highsec ... ... where it matters, because that's where all the people are.
I give up. *throws towel* I can just try and find out if there's something different once the expansion is live ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 19:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:I really think the way you want "suspect flag" and killrights to go hand in hand is a bad idea!!! it really shouldn't be everyone in who comes by who should be allowed to shoot the person... why not just make it only the fleet you are in that can shoot the target?
you will end up with people with killrights on their head being completly unable to go anywhere near systems with high trafic/population
thus forcing people with killrights to stay away from places like Jita?... instead of having it be something that can encourage pvp (not that it wont be used) The suspect part of this would be a great idea if people wouldn't be such cowards in a videogame. All of this would have the potential of pure awesomeness, if it wasn't for the people ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 20:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tippia wrote:They're just not convincing, especially in the face of the increased incentives to shoot people and the increased methods of generating those rights.
You're talking about the new bounty system ? If so, then i can only hope that this will work out, because if not ...
Strata Maslav wrote:Quote: 1) Attack Alt in nub ship 2) Use alt to put 20 mil kill right on your head. 3) Put a bounty on your head for 20% of the cost of you ship. 4) Sit there in your 100mil ship waiting for someone to attack you hoping to make a quick easy 40mil 5) Dont die for 15 minutes (Run away/fight back??) 6) ?? 7) 20mil Profit 8) Do this for 30 days 9) Repeat
I cannot express this enough. This will be the *new* canflip. Can anyone confirm that an aggressing a suspect in highsec allows them to fight back or will you just run away for 15 minutes? CCP said people are ALWAYS allowed to defend themselves.
Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now i get what that meant ............................... I believe outlaws won't be able to sell killrights ....................................... :( There'd be lots of opportunity for me to entertain the locals of hek, if that was possible ......... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 20:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now i get what that meant ............................... I believe outlaws won't be able to sell killrights ....................................... :( There'd be lots of opportunity for me to entertain the locals of hek, if that was possible ......... I don't see anything in the blog saying that they can't. It's more a matter of them having a harder time actually getting killrights to sell since, being outlaws, they're usually legal targets so attacking them won't trigger the C-flag that would give them the killright. If they manage to be illegally attacked, they should be able to sell it as well as anyone else. *laughs* Okay, they might not have noted it in the devblog, but as outlaws can be attacked without raising the C-flag, they will not be able to sell killrights. bummer ... people would have loved this ... Wish CCP would - at least for once - listen to those who care about entertaining the masses. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1797
|
Posted - 2012.10.11 20:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Reticle wrote:['m pretty sure any PvE ship worth 1billion ISK is going to have reasonably high EHP. You're going to need more than 3 friends (or you're going to making an investment in DPS and a bigger ship) to take down the PvE ship. You're pretty sure, but don't actually know it.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=17664386
There are plenty of these. I know it's not API verified, but it's enough to show that expensive ships not necessarily have high EHP. Actually, there is no reason to believe that. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1803
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 09:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:They can do this repeatedly until they get -5 sec status and then have to go to low or null and belt rat a bit until standings improve. All combat occurs on his terms when he chooses and thanks to the protection of concord. No outlaw has the need to go to low when he hits -5, they just choose to do so, because they are either too afraid or too uninformed to know better.
That said, i understand that most people don't want to play the way i do, but in the other way round, it's a nerf to criminal activity because CCP knows that people will back down from being FFA.
On one side it's a nerf against all the cowards, on the other side nobody seems to think of the noobs.
Noobs are totally discouraged to steal cans to make money, but instead get pushed into carebear activities.
(i exclude trading, because although it's possible to start trading from 0 and make millions, it's even more unlikely for a noob to do so than stealing from cans/wrecks he finds floating around) Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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